Craigslist War, Part 2 



On Saturday, Rachel called Mary and left a message on her phone saying she would no longer talk to Dale. 

     “You’re the one I have a relationship with, you’re the one I’ve dealt with since before we even bought Tony,” she told Mary.  “Your husband doesn’t know what you and I have discussed or agreed on.”

According to the doctors, John would need five weeks of physical therapy for his hip. Three times every week, Rachel drove John the 60 mile round trip into town for his sessions. Mary didn’t call with any offers of a horse to trade.  Sorting out the problems with Tony and bringing another horse to the farm were not Rachel’s priority.

Rachel did, during odd moments of free time, attempt to call Mary, but no one ever answered or returned her calls.  Rachel pondered her predicament.  If Mary and Dale refused to return her calls, it didn't look likely they would trade Tony for a gentler, safer horse.  In fact, it was beginning to look like Rachel had paid almost $1,000 for a sale-barn bucking bronco.  “Kid safe,” indeed.

Life was temporarily reordered by their new routine, centered as it was on John’s therapy.  As John healed, Rachel’s relief was enormous.  The weeks passed, and she again returned to the dilemma of Tony.

On the way home from physical therapy one afternoon, they stopped by the farm where James and Lily trained.  Rachel wanted to ask Lily if she would evaluate Tony.  After the accident, Rachel had looked carefully at Tony’s tack to see if, for example, a burr stuck to the underside of his blanket had set him off, but she found nothing to explain his explosion.  Maybe they had done something wrong when they saddled him.  Maybe Tony just hated men.  She needed a professional. 

The woman who greeted them at the farm wasn’t Lily.  She rather coldly told them that Lily had moved to another town about 40 minutes away.  She gave Rachel Lily’s new number and Rachel called her that evening.  She told Lily the whole story, including from whom they had purchased the horse.  Lily asked for a week or so to think it over.

Non-confrontational by nature, Rachel looks back on her next move with some surprise.  This is what she posted on Craigslist:  (Rachel did not mention any names in her ad, but did give a specific location.)

HORSE BUYERS BEWARE
Date: 2010-09-17, 9:34PM CDT
Reply to: XXXXXXXXXXX
People in rural xxxx, advertising for sale "kid broke" horses. They lie. They even acquire killer horses and sell them as "kid broke" If you want a good reliable horse, look elsewhere.

To the HTT readers who have slogged through some of the stories posted prior to this one, you’ll be able to guess what happened next.  Rachel began receiving emails from people all over the area, telling her their own stories about Mary and Dale’s misdeeds. 

In a moment of fury, Rachel called and left a final phone message for her sellers.

     “Now I know I’m not the only one who has gotten a bad horse from you.”

Rachel’s post was flagged off Craigslist by the following day so she posted another on September 19 which read as follows:

Mid Iowa and nearby locations. DO NOT let the baby on the hip, her job as a paramedic, and all the kids running around make you think these people are o.k.  Judy, Connie, Janet, and all the rest that have responded to my ad - let the people that rely on Craigslist to find good horses know about these people - they lie, are dishonest, and misrepresent the horses they sell. How could you sell a horse to a family for young children to ride that you know is not safe? Shame on you!!!!!!! What are you teaching your children?

That evening, Rachel finally heard from Dale.  The message he left on Rachel’s phone is transcribed here:

Rachel, uh, this is Dale R. again.

If you want to try to work something out on this horse, you call me.  And we will NOT buy your horse back.  I will not. 

I will trade you another broke horse if that’s what you like.  And you act like a 10-year-old.  {Indecipherable} on Craigslist is exactly what you are doing and you get your four people together if you want and we will go to court. 

Because not you or anybody else I’ve sold a horse to had any written contract or agreement on any horses, plus you were four months deep before you had any problems with the horse. 

You admitted it, so, anytime you want to go to court, lady, let’s go to court.  And the next time you put something on Craigslist, I’ve done talked to an attorney and if you put anything else about where she works or what she does for a living, you are in deep trouble, lady.  As soon as I get all this tracked down and Craigslist tells me you’re the one, you will be hearing from my attorney. 

So keep it up or come trade horses and shut up!

The ads below were posted over the next few days.  They speak for themselves.

re:horse buyers (xxxxx, south of xxxxx)
Date: 2010-09-19, 9:40AM CDT
Reply to: see below
These people are country horse traders they go to sales buy unbroke horses ride them 2or 3 times then advertise them as extremely broke great trail horses kid safe etc. They live on county road xxx and hwy xx south of xxxx xx.  They have several different places and tactics they use to sell you a horse, have friends sell it from their house, move it to rented ground and sell it from there, sedate the horse etc etc.  Anybody you buy a horse from ask to see their I.D. and if it says Mary/Dale/Jeremy/Larry/Krissy you better be very wary. I didn’t give any last names but I can on request. 

(The above ad was not posted by Rachel and she never discovered who did post it.  Undoubtedly it was another victimized horse buyer.)

To the people posting negative ads on Craigslist - $1 (Anywhere/XXXXX)
Date: 2010-09-20, 3:29PM CDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I am posting this to answer those who are posting negative ads against others on Craigslist.
I have bought and sold several items on this network and have had good experiences.
I think the reason people purchase items on here is because it is more personal than an e-bay or Amazon site, plus there is a chance to buy livestock and other like items that they do not sell.
It is anyone's choice wether to pay that money and take that item home. It is also their ability to have a vet inspection prior to that as well, if they choose not to, that is their problem (or sounds like yours).
The animals I have sold have always had a "no money back, make it right guarntee" meaning if you are not happy for one reason or another, I may not give you your money back, but I will make it right - with a trade or training, or something.
I try my best to be 100% honest about everything that leaves my house, and I have had good response from that honesty.
I have no idea who is posting negative ads about me, my friends, or some other people a hundred miles away that I don't even know, but it makes me wonder that if they are not contacting me, are they just someone else who is trying to sell some thing and is not being honest about what they have, and they are trying to kill my business to increase their own, or is it one person who is just unhappy and does not have the sense to contact me and work out the details.
I want to say that I have NEVER drugged an animal, and I don't know if others have, but I have NOT, and would be willing to allow any of my animals to be tested.
People come to my house, sometimes several times to see the animals I have for sale, and yes it is livestock, and yes, sometimes they don't act like they should, but most of the time, if people have problems, it is because they take an animal home that they don't know how to care for or to work with in the first place, and that is why they have problems.

Last but not least, please if you have a problem with a person you have purchased something from, call them. If you cannot reach them, then use this venue to reach them. Possibly they will be willing to work with you.

Buying livestock is not like buying a 4 wheeler or a car, they have a mind of their own, and if you spoil them, don't use them, or treat them badly, they will misbehave - just like children - Please be a responsible buyer, and if you are not able to handle what you have purchased, have someone teach you or help you.

Oh, and if a horse is gentle enough for a child to ride, and adult should be able to - I have seen two postings about that - and saying a horse is not broke if a child can ride it can go two ways, yes some kids' horses are spoiled, and do not mind very well, but most of the time if a child can ride them they have to be gentle, or kids should not be on them.

Thanks for your time, feel free to contact me for more opinions or if you are having trouble with some livestock you have purchased, possibly I can recommend a vet or a trainer. Thanks for your time.
·    Location: Anywhere/xxxxx

Horse buyers (XXX  XX)
Date: 2010-09-20, 5:03PM CDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To poster Mary P-----you were contacted and refused to do anything about bad horse.


To Rachel Simmons - The lady posting about me - $1 (XXX XXX)
Date: 2010-09-20, 7:00PM CDT
Reply to:
Dear Rachel - Not only did you buy your horse 4 months ago but you also told me you loved him.
Not until 2 weeks ago when your husband fell off him were you unhappy. I offered to trade you horses, and you did not show up.
I have a nice 11-year-old registered black gelding for sale, and my husband told you that. He is standing here waiting for you.
I cannot and will not promise that a horse will stay broke for 4 months - I will ride him for you, or trade you horses, but like I said earlier if you don't know how to handle them, don't buy them.
I am glad he has worked out for your grandkids!
If you were not chicken, you would call me - but you won't answer my calls - so I will be pressing charges, and so will Larry, Jeremy and Krissy.
Thanks for your time.

Rachel Simmons, Rachel Simmons, Rachel Simmons - Liar and soon to be convict - $1 (Mid XX/ XXXXX)
Date: 2010-09-20, 8:38PM CDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear Rachel - Not only did you buy your horse 4 months ago (or more) but you also told me you loved him. After it took you an extra 2 weeks to even come get him. You came to my house more than once, and you said your grandkids rode that horse all summer and had no problems.
Not until 2 weeks ago when your husband fell off him were you unhappy. I offered to trade you horses, and you did not show up.
You even admitted that I was not responsible for the horse, but wondered IF I could help you find something else, and I told you I would.
I have a nice 11 year old registered black gelding for sale, and my husband told you that. He is standing here waiting for you.
I cannot and will not promise that a horse will stay broke for 4 months - I will ride him for you, or trade you horses, but like I said earlier if you don't know how to handle them, don't buy them.
I am glad he has worked out for your grandkids!
If you were not chicken, you would call me - but you won't answer my calls - so I will be pressing charges, and so will Larry, Jeremy and Krissy.
We have left you messages, since Friday when you called us, but you will not call back and you were a no show Sunday.
 
ALL BUYERS OF ANYTHING (PRICLESS)
 Date: 2010-09-20, 10:40PM CDT
Reply to: see below
READ ME…………….FIRST
IF no one is twisting your arm, holding a gun to your head, beating you with a damn stick!
YOU DON’T HAVE TO BUY IT!!! If you have been taken by your own stupid action that is completely your fault. All your doing by posting ads on CL about some lucky asshole that has sold you a cull, your just showing how smart you really are.

ALSO if you buy something from somebody and you don’t get it in writing that they will take it back if it don’t meet your standards YOU probably shouldn’t have taken it in the first place for one…………………… AND IT ISNT WAL-MART if your in JR’S BACKYARD!!!

And don’t reply to my ad over CL YOU’D JUST waste space with more shit

Thanks
   
Horses for sale (xxxx/xxxx)
Date: 2010-09-21, 9:22AM CDT
Reply to: see below
to all horse buyers beware of these people they sell dangerous animals.they tell you their kid safe horses but will buck your child off . do a search on their names on xxcase.net and you will see all the civil judgements against them .
·    Location: xxxxxxxx
·    it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


RACHEL SIMmons YOu are a lying idiot - $1 (XXXXXX)
Date: 2010-09-21, 10:06AM CDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxx
Do not sell Rachel Simmons a horse - she is a pain in the ass - she wants a horse to be guarnteed for 4 months - and it did not buck a child off - it bucked her husband off - so she says - but her husband does not ride - he plays golf -
Rachel - just let Lily sell your horse and shut up.
Below are pictures of the horse if you would like to buy it - apparently it is for sale.
Looks pretty crazy I know.
Since you want to not answer when I call - my lawyer will be in touch - oh, and nothing on xxcase.net has anything to do with a horse at all - or livestock of any kind.

Lily?  In her phone conversations with Mary, she had never mentioned knowing Lily, or asking Lily to ride Tony.  Ironically, the next day, Rachel got a new email from someone she had been trading stories with; someone who had read her Craigslist posts and written to tell Rachel about his own disastrous episode buying a horse from James and Lily.  In an email, he wrote:

     You know that James is Dale R’s nephew, don’t you?

Rachel called Lily and left a message telling Lily she no longer required her horse training services.

Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Rachel- $1 (XXXXXX)
Date: 2010-09-21, 10:59AM CDT
Reply to: XXXXXXXXXXX
Oh, and don't say you are going to stop posting things and then do it 10 minutes later.
You said that is childish - hmmmm - someone is!

Re: XXXX Horse Traders (XXXX, XX)
Date: 2010-09-21, 11:06AM CDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I don't know Rachel Simmons or what you did to her, but I know you lie. You buy horses at auctions and you buy rogue horses from individuals, then sell them as "kid broke" and "family safe" horses. You lie about knowing their backgrounds and training levels. You shamelessly use your children to sell horses. Most horses will be docile when they're full of Acepromazine. One of these days, someone's child will be killed on one of your "kid broke" horses.

Horse buyers beware! Do some research before you buy a horse and get something in writing!!!!
 
Buckskin horse for sale - - $1000 (XXXXXX)
Date: 2010-09-21, 11:27AM CDT
Reply to: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I know a lady who has a buckskin horse for sale that her grandchildren have been riding all summer but her husband cannot ride.
Per Craigslist rules (I have read them) I cannot post anything false, and will not do so.
This horse was purchased in late May or early June. I was told by phone that the "grandkids" rode the horse all over the place, and they love the horse, but would like to trade for something different because her husband went off the horse.
The lady was not in "any hurry" to find anything as long as it was the right horse. I did not have anything to trade at the time that I felt comfortable trading her, so I had to look around.
Tuesday September 14th she called and said she was bringing the buckskin horse out Sunday and would let us know when she was headed out. She called Friday September 17th and said she wanted to know what I was going to give her back - I told her I had a horse in mind, but I wanted to ride it a few more times to make sure he was OK, she was going to check with her son and get back to me - I never heard back from her until these personal attacks against me and my friends started on Saturday.

I pride myself in being totally honest about things. I do not drug my animals, nor would I. I have kids of my own, and would NEVER let a child or adult get hurt.
I take good care of my family, friends, and animals, and would welcome anyone to call my vet or come and see my place, wether you are interested in buying something or not.
I have several VERY pleased horse buyers just recently and some from years back.
We only started selling horses because my husband was laid off and with 4 kids, a mortgage and utilites, my one income was not enough.
I am really sad that someone who claims to be grown up is now posting things on Craigslist about me personally.
This is a violation of Craigslist rules to lie and to post things that are untrue.
Nothing in this posting is untrue.
Please feel free to e-mail me if you want. Thanks a lot.

If you are interested in this horse - I can give you a number to call to reach his owner. I will not post it on the internet
·    Location: XXXXXX

On October 5, 2010, just over a month after John’s accident, HTT asked Rachel for her thoughts, and asked what she planned to do with Tony.

I was amazed at how skillfully Mary presented her “case” on the Craigslist postings, about how shamelessly she and Dale could lie.  They kept saying I'd owned the horse for four months.  Four months! We had him six weeks, almost to the day. People who don’t know the whole story might certainly accept that Mary was honest and straightforward, and think that I was the unreasonable nut with unrealistic expectations.  That bothers me.  I wonder how many people noticed that I never mentioned them by name, but their postings about me not only splashed my name all over their ads, but also portrayed me as a horse seller’s worst nightmare.  I guess I can tell them about nightmares.  I don’t believe for a moment that they talked to an attorney, and anyway, I’d have a far stronger case for defamation than they.
As for Tony…right now he is with a trainer for 30 days.  It all depends upon what we determine about his behavior and what the trainer thinks.  If we do sell him, it will include a description of his behavior prior to the trainer working with him.  If the outcome is unfavorable, I will probably put him down.  I will not allow him to harm another person.  I might find a cowboy that would be willing to take him, with the provision that he would never be sold as a “family safe horse.”  It is a real shame because he is a beautiful horse but I feel like he had a tough start in life.  He has a fearful look in his eyes.  That became very apparent after he was here for a while, had gained weight and was feeling really good.  I am still leaving open the possibility that he might have gotten stung or had something under the girth or saddle blanket, but I looked through all that very carefully after the accident and did not find anything. 
I just hope telling this story will help someone else not feel like an idiot if they bought a rough horse, or been cheated like us.



For the next story, click here-  Molly's First Horse